Living History: An Interview with Corky Larson
by Colin Barrows
UPDATE 8/6/2020: In the summer of of 2018, I had the great pleasure of interviewing Patricia “Corky” Larson with FODM Board Member Cheryl McKinley as part of our Living History series. Among her many accomplishments, Corky was Riverside County Supervisor for the Coachella Valley from 1982 to 1994, oversaw the creation of the creation of the Coachella Valley Fringe-toed Lizard Habitat Plan in 1986, and was a driving force behind the creation of the Coachella Valley Multiple Species Habitat Conservation Plan.
As residents of the Coachella Valley, we owe a great deal to Corky’s leadership and foresight. She was the right person in the right place at a pivotal “now or never” moment in the history of our desert. It’s not hard to imagine an alternate history where different leaders had chosen “never”, and the identitify of the valley had been forever lost, along with the unique plants and animals that live here.
Corky Larson died at the age of 92 on June 3rd, 2020. Read her obituary here. At the time of the interview, and in revisiting the recording today, I found our conversation an inspiring profile in leadership, wit, and humor. I hope you’ll enjoy reading the transcript, and follow the example the Corky set for us all.
Corky Larson:
So, what are we doing here today?
Colin Barrows:
That's a good question. Cheryl and I are working on what we're calling a Living History, talking to people who... so I work with Friends of the Desert Mountains and Cheryl is on the board, so we're talking to people who had an influence on conservation in the Coachella Valley. I think I mentioned, we just finished talking to Al Muth, who's retiring in about a week.
Corky Larson:
He's a grand guy.
Colin Barrows:
He is.
Corky Larson:
To begin with, we didn't start out that way. (laughs).
Colin Barrows:
Let's jump in there.
Cheryl McKinley:
How did you start out?
Corky Larson:
Well, they were trying to put the fringe-toed lizard preserve together. And since that was a County issue, you might say, in other words a land use issue, they had to go to me as County Supervisor. Otherwise they wouldn't have (laughs). And I wasn't particularly conservation minded, in the sense of buying land and setting it aside. I figured if it was to happen it would happen, which is dumb, but that's where I was (laughs).
Colin Barrows:
Everybody has to start somewhere. That's a lot of what we were talking to Al about, is the original creation of the fringe-toed lizard preserve. And you had to sign off on that at some point. What was it that changed your mind?
Corky Larson:
It was something that someone said. I mean, I was opposed to it. I didn't like taking private property for a public purpose. "Buy every square inch of it, if that's what you want." That's what my mindset was at the time. I'm trying to think... Bill Mayhew could've been in on this conversation, but I can't recall now who all was there, but there was two or three Bill Mayhew types and myself. And I think it was Bill that said that, "You know in a little bit, this will all be gone. And now's time." And I heard him. So he kind of convinced me with one fell swoop. I mean, he took me 180 degrees, because when they walked in, I was going to say, "Well... so long", you know?
Colin Barrows:
(Laughs) So it literally was like you went in for a meeting and at the end of the meeting, you're mind had changed. Wow.
Cheryl McKinley:
Do you know what year that was approximately? Seventies?
Corky Larson:
No, it wasn't the seventies. It was '82.
Corky Larson:
It was Bill Mayhew who convinced me. Mayhew just seemed genuine. And it's not that the others didn't, it's just that I think they wanted a preserve, but they didn't want to buy the land. That's what I objected to. My thing was, you buy every square inch, and then you do what you want to do with your land.
Colin Barrows:
And would Al have been there at that point?
Corky Larson:
Al was there, but he wasn't as front and center as he is now.
Colin Barrows:
He would have been brand new on the job at that point, I think?
Corky Larson:
Yeah, but he was there. And he and I had a disagreement about something and it was a good crackling one, but I can't remember what it was now.
Colin Barrows:
I've heard that you tend to get your way.
Cheryl McKinley:
That's how you get to be County Supervisor.
Corky Larson:
Well, I think before you open your mouth, you ought to know where you are. And, I pretty much did that, and where I was, was "no" (laughs). That doesn't mean you stay there.
Colin Barrows:
So that was a nice introduction, but I want to just start back a little bit, with how you were introduced to the Coachella Valley, or when did you come to the Coachella Valley?
Corky Larson:
I came here in 1954, to move here.
Colin Barrows:
Had you been here before? Were you familiar with the area?
Corky Larson:
No, I hadn't really. We farmed down in Brawley and would drive through. We generally stopped in Palm Springs for breakfast in the morning when we would leave really early.
Colin Barrows:
What kind of farming were you doing?
Corky Larson:
Well, I'm trying to think... how familiar are you with the farming done here?
Colin Barrows:
I mean, I grew up here, but other than that, I'm not a farmer, so...
Corky Larson:
Well, there's two kinds of farming. There's flood irrigation, like alfalfa, stuff like that, and then there's specialty farming. So it was mainly the flooding type.
Colin Barrows:
So you would have grown whatever was in season, or...? I know these days they grow a lot of strawberries and watermelon and stuff out there, but that maybe wasn't the case back then.
Corky Larson:
None of that. A lot of that farming is done by leasing it from the owner, you just can't buy it. Sharecropping. That's what we were doing on that piece of property.
Colin Barrows:
And, "we" is you and your husband, or your family?
Corky Larson:
My husband and I. We farmed for two years down in Brawley, and we always did sharecropping, 'cause that lets you out easily. There wasn't an investment there.
Colin Barrows:
So, you farmed in Brawley for a while and then came up to the Coachella Valley.
Corky Larson:
Yeah, we were driving through one day on old 99, drove by a piece of property that was close to Valerie Jean's. And so I called the guy up, whose name was on the sign to see if he wanted to sell it, and he did, and he really wanted to get rid of it. Now, it was right on the highway, one 40 up from the corner, and he was going to sell it for a thousand an acre, which even at that time was a good buy. So we thought, "Eh, we can always sell it", but it had a cotton allotment - everybody had to have allotments at that time. So we grew cotton.
Cheryl McKinley:
What interested you in becoming a politician and a representative of the County and all the rest of the work that you did? What drew you into that?
Corky Larson:
Well, I've always been involved in the community. Wherever I am, I'm not the quiet one in the group. I believe if you have an idea, you ought to express it and let people shoot it down, if that's what they want to do, but at least you need to put it out there.
Colin Barrows:
Did you go straight from farming to County supervisor or was there something in between?
Corky Larson:
My husband and I were farming and then, I think Ray Seeley was Supervisor. Don't hold me to it, I'd have to look that up (laughs), but I believe whoever it was died. They were gonna make an interim appointment, and I threw my name in the hat for that. And it's funny, there were just two of us that threw our names in the hat, and our darling supervisor picked the other person (laughs), which was annoying. He was probably right, but it was annoying (laughs).
Cheryl McKinley:
I tried read your bio last night, so I wasn't just completely lost. Were you involved in the schools also?
Corky Larson:
Yes, I was on the school board.
Cheryl McKinley:
And you had six children? Wow. Three boys, three girls. And 26 grandchildren, you have more by now?
Corky Larson:
I wrote the bio, so it should be accurate (laughs).
Cheryl McKinley:
Okay. So you were a busy lady from forever with the farming, the children...
Corky Larson:
Well, I'm kind of high energy. No matter where I am at, I'm going to be busy.
Cheryl McKinley:
What set of beliefs, let's say, did you bring to the whole idea of conservation? Was it the fringe-toed lizard that precipitated the whole crisis?
Corky Larson:
Well, you know, you really have to give Bill Mayhew credit for dragging me in, because I didn't come kicking and screaming, but I came like a dead body. You know, again, "If it's to be, somebody will buy it, dedicate the land. This isn't the government's business". Now, do I believe that now? No, but I did then. When we're young, we're quite naive. So that's the way that was.
Colin Barrows:
It's quite a transformation. I mean, a lot of people credit you with the idea of coming up with the MSHCP, or at least the first idea to say, "let's do the MSHCP", after we did the lizard. So, that's quite a jump.
Corky Larson:
Well, by the time we did the lizard, I was on board. So that was a small step. I mean, I got the picture that, "wait a minute, it's now or never. And it's heading toward never" (laughs).
Colin Barrows:
I was just thinking, when you say two people put their name in the hat for the County Supervisor position. The difference between that and today where, there were a million people who wanted that job after John Benoit died.
Corky Larson:
That's certainly true. But the odds of getting it we're just about the same. People who are really well qualified see themselves as Congressman or this or that. But, "Supervisor. What's that?" Well, you can get a lot done. I'd submit, you can get more done if you have a vision of how you think things ought to be. I don't mean it's all drawn out in your mind, but you really know where you ought to be going. You can do more as County Supervisor, then you can as Congressman, or any of the other positions that are available. Now, a real activist could get a lot done. But generally the kind that will run for that are not the real activists. They want to get elected (laughs).
Colin Barrows:
So, we know you weren't a conservationist when you put your name in the hat the first time. What was the issue that you wanted to change at that point?
Corky Larson:
I strongly believe in good government. Not that anybody else who was throwing their name in the hat believed in bad government. I mean, nobody said "I'm for bad government, vote for me" (laughs), but, I didn't think they would necessarily work as hard as I might for that concept. And I figured, hey, I was qualified.
Cheryl McKinley:
So the first thing that came about before there was CVAG and before there was CVMC, was the MSHCP, the multiple species plan. And then did the rest of these kinds of organizations that we work with so closely... did they kind of fall into place? You had a role in each of those, how did that come to be?
Corky Larson:
Well, they were already there... it's not my love, I just knew it needed to be done. So I wasn't working out of zeal. If I'd been working out of zeal, I probably would have known more of the players and stuff, but I just knew they needed the votes at the proper time, and the leadership. We were the second in the state of California, I think. And the first one was like, 190 acres, a little guy. We really were trailblazers. But people like Buford and Bill Mayhew and those guys, they were kind of like the brains for me. They'd come to me, "Well, now this is what we need to do," and I would say, "Oh, okay." I don't think it would have been if it hadn't been for Bill Mayhew.
Colin Barrows:
That's probably right.
Corky Larson:
I think he was more important than it seems because he was low key and you know, he didn't make a lot of noise. I mean, if I'm in the room, you know I'm there. He could be in the room and you might not know he was there. He was really more important, in my opinion, then he takes credit for, or is given credit. He gave it credibility to me. Otherwise it was just some do gooders out there, patting trees on the head.
Colin Barrows:
Because he was from the university, or something about him?
Corky Larson:
I think because he was... I guess I'd use the word scholarly. He didn't just say with a fell swoop, "ain't this grand, we really ought to do it". He told you why it needed to be done and what an opportunity we had that would never come again. And once it's gone, it's gone. And so he absolutely made a believer out of me. And that's hard to do, to take somebody who's kind of, I would use the word opposite. I don't really use that word with myself very much, but take somebody like myself and turn them 180 degrees. And he did that.
Colin Barrows:
Yeah. Like I said, I've heard that you tend to get your way, and that flip is really something. I told my mom that I was going to be interviewing you today, and asked her if she had any tips or any questions that she'd like me to ask, and she told the story about when Desert Hot Springs wanted to get out of the plan the first time. And you said, "well, if they're out, they're out", and everybody else in the room at this big table like the one we're sitting was like, "Ugh, we have to go through all this again". But it sounds like you made the right decision.
Corky Larson:
Oh yeah. You can't let somebody hold you ransom. You don't like it? Get out. You know, you're threatening to get out, get out, don't sit here and threaten me.
Colin Barrows:
Even though that meant a lot more work for all the people at the table. That took guts, on your part.
Corky Larson:
Well, the other way wouldn't have gone any place. They can always do a course correction further down the line, "well, maybe we were hasty". I think from the get go, we knew we were going to be in the plan, and the worst that was going to happen is that two cities, Rancho Mirage and Indian Wells, would not be in it, but who cares? I mean, you know? That says something. The cities need to ask themselves the question: "Why don't they think it's crucial that we're in it?" 'Cause you ain't nobody, kid!
Cheryl McKinley:
Earlier you said the CVMSHCP wasn't the thing that was closest to your heart. Can you talk about some things that are closest to your heart that you did and, and maybe still are doing?
Corky Larson:
I'm more interested in things that affect people. Health care, mental health care, juvenile care. I created three committees: health care, mental health, and juvenile turnaround. Those are the three things that I think were called upon in the County to fix. Riverside, you know, they're they work all day, so to speak, with the people that live up there, not with the people who live down here. They come down here, hold fundraisers, they take our money. "That's good". But, they don't do a blinkety-blank for us (laughs). So, I was not delighted with them. And they don't even see that they're doing it. They think they're being fair. I mean, they're not saying, "how can we be dirty dogs and skim these people", that's not what they're doing. They're saying the population is there. "We have to tend to the heavy population", which I agree. But, there's a happy medium.
Colin Barrows:
Yeah. There's often this dividing line between East and West Riverside. When it comes to education, we look for grants and stuff like that. And if it's County wide, you can be almost sure that everything's going to go to the West side of the County.
Corky Larson:
Oh yes (laughs). It always amazes me how people don't see what they're doing, because the people we were working with were nice people. They weren't out to get us. They have a constituency that is paying their expenses and they expect delivery.
Cheryl McKinley:
You mentioned, I think, that CVAG was already here, it was already in place? So the cities have always had a cooperative feeling about them?
Corky Larson:
The cities here have been great about cooperating with one another. And maybe we've just had to, because we're way over here. We didn't get the services, but we had the need because the real poverty in Riverside County is in the fourth district, which is from Beaumont and Banning over to the river. And so the need was here. Western Riverside County, they weren't bad people that were just selfishly taking stuff. They just didn't see the need. I remember Melba Dunlap. Oh, (laughs) she was really funny. She said, "honestly Corky, I just think that's the ugliest area in the whole world". Well, it's in the eye of the beholder, Melba.
Cheryl McKinley:
That's true.
Colin Barrows:
That's very true.
Corky Larson:
And as a result, I think we've given more leadership than one would expect because we had to. So, it was good. Also we have these pockets of high income folks living down here. Not that high income folks are good, but that high income folks, if they believe in something, can back it up with money. We've been lucky that way, but what you used to gall me was... You guys on the Western end, you come down, hold a fundraiser down in the desert, then waltz off and spend it all in the Western Riverside County. I bet they hated me up there. Cause I just sang that song over and over. You know, it's like, "Here, she comes!". I didn't want more than our share. I just wanted our share.
Cheryl McKinley:
In a way, the creation of this preserve is very distinctive. It seems to me gave us an identity that maybe we didn't have before and gave us something to fight for. It was really a kind of visionary leadership, while they were just doing city stuff as per normal.
Corky Larson:
Yeah, it was the number two HCP in the United States. And number one was only 150 acres. Now, people like Al and Bill Mayhew, and those guys, they put it all together. They were the brains, but I don't think they could have gotten it done without my help.
Colin Barrows:
I think they would agree.
Corky Larson:
And it isn't my help that I did something good, it's my help in that... it's the personality behind it. That I'm not always nice (laughs). Sometimes!
Colin Barrows:
Do you have an example of something that you had to do? Maybe when you were talking to developers maybe, or the other people who had an interest in the land?
Corky Larson:
Oh, I knew how to talk to developers, 'cause we were in the building business. "What do you want? You want to build it? Then you better Johnny-well get this thing through here. Or you will get blocked. Cause they're getting a head of steam and they're going to come in and stop you." And once people stop something, they tend to go overkill. So anyhow, the developers were very helpful for me.
Cheryl McKinley:
Can you tell me how that was? Who that was? We haven't had the chance to think about the development community as part of this picture.
Corky Larson:
Well, now Bill Bone, I think is still around, but he's in Las Vegas most of the time. Bill was here and he was involved in this kind of stuff. If you really get the developers against something, it's not going to happen. I mean, where they're organized, putting money behind it and fighting it tooth and nail, they can stop it, but they don't like to do that because it looks bad. So they like to be good corporate citizens. And so you really need to work with the developers, in my opinion, if you're gonna put something together. So they understand the purpose, they understand that this makes things move smoothly for them. They were getting delayed in some of their permits forever and a day. And most of the development of the vacant land was in the County. Well, who controls the County? Believe me, on the County Board of Supervisors, the Supervisor of the district controls the County. Nobody knows how much power that person has. As an example, somebody said to me, he was knowledgeable and I believe him, that the five Los Angeles County Supervisors are probably, after the governor, the five most powerful people in the state. They can't get everything they want, but they can stop anything they don't want. So, that's a lot of power.
Cheryl McKinley:
What's your vision for the future for this County, for our desert, for endangered species? You came at this job with this strong vision of what you wanted. And some of us that are trying to hold down the conservation part of things are wondering, how can we keep the Valley blessed, as it currently is?
Corky Larson:
I think you have to work very hard on relationships. Everything is relationships and if somebody doesn't like you, you aren't going to get anything done, but if they like you, they're not gonna put their hobnail boots, so to speak, in the middle of your back, running over you, you know. They will be considerate of what your objective is. And I think your objective can't be static. I mean, I can't sit here and say, well, "my vision is this". No, you have to wait until something comes up and always be ready to jump in. Now, there are other people who... like, I imagine you (nods at Colin), who are part of the planning of what's going to come up, but not the decision maker. Not the final decision maker. They really shouldn't be, because unintentionally they'll color it.
Colin Barrows:
Looking back, at least as far as the MSHCP and the lizard preserve, do you think that we accomplished everything that we should have? Do you think today we're in the right place?
Corky Larson:
You know, once I waltzed out of that CVAG office, I never looked back. So, I have no idea where they are, because I know sometimes I've dealt with people who used to be in a position that could wield a lot of power and they were upset because things weren't going the way they thought it ought to. Well, I'm not going to spend my life that way. If I can't change it, shut up and move on,
Colin Barrows:
Maybe the day before you left, did you feel like everything was in a good place, or were there changes that needed to be made?
Corky Larson:
No, I always felt that if something needed to be done, we got it done.
Colin Barrows:
Good.
Corky Larson:
You know, you never see yourself as others see you, otherwise you'd change. I mean, if the vision was negative. Because I don't think any of us are obnoxious on purpose.
Colin Barrows:
Well... (laughs)
Corky Larson:
There are people... (laughs)
Colin Barrows:
I was wondering, I don't know whether you feel like this, but it seems to me that as a woman, you were pioneering, with the job that you had, and sort of walking into a room full of men and telling them... I'm trying to think of the right word... Does that click with you at all?
Corky Larson:
Well, I think I was a leader. I think people did respect me. I mean, somebody who I voted and carried the day against didn't respect me, but overall I think they did.
Colin Barrows:
How did you gain that respect, do you think? Or, are you just a respectful person? (laughs)
Corky Larson:
No, (laughs) I'm not a respectful person. I work on relationships. The thing I always did, and I recommend this to everybody, if you've been at a meeting and one of the key players and you have an argument and it doesn't end well, you have a feeling that the guy now hates you, you know, the next meeting that you're at, be sure that you sit beside him. It's all you have to do because most of us... it's one thing to have knockdown, drag out fights, but you have to have respect and a person knows that no matter how much you disagree on this, they can come to you and you will listen to them. And I did change my mind on a lot of things. And I think that's the other thing: you can't be afraid to change your mind. That's why people argue you with you, isn't it? You know?
Cheryl McKinley:
It's what they call having that kind of dialogue, you know, it's good to have some difference of opinion, because it's how new ideas sneak in.
Corky Larson:
Generally, people say that, but they mean "not very different", (laughs), "a little teeny bit different".
Cheryl McKinley:
As long as it really ends up being my idea.
Corky Larson:
Yeah. But I think we have been so blessed in the Coachella Valley with the environmental community. If I were an environmentalist at that first meeting I had with Al Muth and Bill Mayhew, I would not have a very great opinion of me, 'cause you know, I never held back. I didn't let them think they were dealing with a great ally, where she just gonna say, "fine, let's do this".
Cheryl McKinley:
How'd your husband go along with all of this?
Corky Larson:
He was busy farming and in theory, farmers should be great environmentalists, but that's a bunch of hooey. They're not (laughs). "Plow it under!" There are exceptions of course, but they don't speak up at meetings. They don't take a leadership role. And my husband was a lot like I am, if he's in a room, you know he's in the room.
Colin Barrows:
What about your kids? Did they go on to be... nobody's a County Supervisor, I guess (laughs).
Corky Larson:
Nobody's a County Supervisor (laughs). No, things have to be just right. You know, you can run at one time and it wouldn't go any place. Other times... first of all, I don't pound my point of view. I mean, it may sound like I do sitting here, but...
Colin Barrows:
You ran for Congress at some point?
Corky Larson:
Yes I did.
Colin Barrows:
What was the story there?
Corky Larson:
The story was, I was running against Sonny Bono. Well, the world knows Sonny Bono and they thought it would be cute to have a famous movie star. Small matter that he was a nincompoop.
Cheryl McKinley:
You also, according to the bio, fulfilled your long-term interest in earning a law law degree?
Corky Larson:
Yeah. I graduated from law school in 1990. It was kind you go four years to, at night. I went to that from '86 to 1990 and then took the bar in 1990.
Cheryl McKinley:
What gave you such an interest in law?
Corky Larson:
Well, when I graduated from high school, the two really fulfilling occupations for women were law and medicine, so it was one or the other. So, law was the one.
Colin Barrows:
Your original degree was in education. Is that right?
Corky Larson:
Right. I have a bachelor of science in education.
Colin Barrows:
What stopped you from going into law the first time?
Corky Larson:
Do you know? I didn't think I could do it. And you know, I think that that's something that women have to realize, that if you'd said, "well, do you have an inferiority complex?" "No." "Do you think you aren't as capable as a man?" "No." "Then why didn't you do it?" "Well, other people think that". So, I just didn't think I'd get any place. Plus, most of the women at that time did research work, I mean, for an attorney. They may have been an attorney, may have argued in court, but they really weren't on their own. Now, that's not to say there weren't outstanding women attorneys.
Colin Barrows:
Was it more about the accomplishment, or was it helpful in your work?
Corky Larson:
I think it was. You know, it's funny. People have a degree of respect for you. They think you're smart, they think you're dumb, whatever, doesn't matter. But, you pass that bar, somebody impartial said you're smart enough to do this. And all of a sudden, it's like a gold star. And you know, men don't need that as much as women do, but I think women need validation, especially back then.
Colin Barrows:
Yeah. That's kind of the question I was trying to get to before, did you feel like you ever got push-back as a woman, as a Supervisor?
Corky Larson:
Just try it (laughs). Not a chance in the world. No I didn't. And I got along well with the fellow members of the board. I would say of the three women on the board, so it was a majority of women, probably the two men respected me. You know, I was able to, I'm going to say argue, in a manner that made sense to men. And the other women were all... (laughs). There were some smart women, I mean, Kay Ceniceros is a lovely lady. She is... she's a lady, just a really nice person... but very sweet. And she can be forceful too. So it isn't that she can't be forceful.
Colin Barrows:
She was on the board with you?
Corky Larson:
Yes, she was the first woman Supervisor. She was on one two year term before... it was a four year term, but they were elected every two years, so she was on for two years before I got on, then she was on the whole time that I was on, and then she was on for two years after. So she served four years longer than I did. Very capable. But it's funny... well, I really like Kay. She's nice person, honest, could see the point on things... But she didn't get anything done, you know? It's like, "okay Kay, and what's different because you were there?". Well, did she make the constituency feel comfortable with government? Yes, she did that. They knew she was honest. They knew she would listen.
Colin Barrows:
What do you see as the major differences after you were Supervisor? What are you most proud of, or maybe what do you feel like you really wanted to accomplish, and got accomplished?
Corky Larson:
Well, I think both on the Board of Supervisors and on the School Board, the one thing that I accomplished was... the CEO or the executive tends to separate the workers from the board. So the CEO will be the go-between. I mean, we were told in no uncertain terms, it's like, "Hey peasant, what are you telling me?" You know? We were told that we should not mix with the workers. Well, how do I know what their thoughts are, if I don't mix with them? And they are voters, and in the County there's a thousand of them. I don't know how good our present Supervisors are. Is that Kevin Jeffries? I don't know him.
Colin Barrows:
Did you stay involved at all, or are you pretty much retired and done enough?
Corky Larson:
I have a feeling when you leave, you ought to leave, and you can't stand there and cast a shadow so that people are always looking over the shoulder, "What's Corky gonna think?". No, it's no longer any of my business. And if you don't cut that off, you will stay involved just because you've given so much over eight or twelve years, you know, you can't help yourself. You have to cut it off. And that's one of the good things about term limits. Now the Board of Supervisors has no term limits, but you do get fresh blood.
Colin Barrows:
That's the number one Google result that comes up when I search for your name, is a story or a quote from you saying something about, "fresh blood is needed," when you retired. I think that's true.
Corky Larson:
I don't care how good you are. You could be.. God looked down and said, "here. I'm sending this angel in Corky Larson's clothing and sending her out there". I don't care how good you are. You haven't got all the answers and you need fresh eyesight. So, I feel really strongly about that. I think I only intended to stay two terms and I think I stayed a third term. I think that's important, two, maybe three, but not four. And I don't think one's enough. I think you have to stand for reelection with the idea that people can really evaluate you. Otherwise they'll dump you out. When they don't dump you out, you know, "Well, I didn't alienate everybody" (laughs). How do people like our present Supervisor, who is...?
Colin Barrows:
He's new. I couldn't tell you his name off the top of my head. I don't know if I've heard any opinion yet. I don't talk to the right type of person enough.
Cheryl McKinley:
I'm really kind of reflecting on what you said about your major accomplishment. You said it was to continue to mix with people, you know, you were told not to do that...
Corky Larson:
With employees. I think that employees ought to feel they can come to you. And of course that's a very thing that the executive officer wants to discourage. 'Cause you get everybody running in complaining, "I hate so-and-so."
Colin Barrows:
Going over their head.
Corky Larson:
Yeah, but you can handle that, I mean, if you're adept at all. "It's not appropriate for us to talk about that. You go talk to Joe blow". I think the most important thing for a Supervisor is to get our and know the constituency. Really know who's who, who's a player, who doesn't care whether you rob the bank, you know.
Colin Barrows:
So, talk to business owners and agency people, and everybody?
Corky Larson:
Well, I seldom talk to business owners because business owners are a different type. If they've got a problem, they are at your front door, or your phone is ringing, they're wringing you out. So you get the feedback from them. The ones you don't get the feedback from are the ones that say, "boy, that disappoints me," or maybe it's just that they don't understand.
Colin Barrows:
So you actually had to make an effort to go out talk to people that you might not have?
Corky Larson:
Oh yeah. And this district is very big.
Colin Barrows:
It's huge.
Corky Larson:
Have you been to Ripley?
Colin Barrows:
I don't even know where Ripley is (laughs).
Corky Larson:
Well, good you stay that way (laughs).
Colin Barrows:
Well, we're nearing our hour mark, which is about what we usually want to do, 'cause it gets tiring after that. One of the things that we've been doing, which I think has worked well, is try to get a couple of people together and have them talk together. Is there someone you would want to talk with about conservation issues, or anything really? Maybe Buford?
Corky Larson:
Well, I think Buford's excellent. Anything you'd ask him. He cares. He's bright. I think my notion more is... there's not anybody that isn't good to talk to. You know, that they're all good to talk to.
Cheryl McKinley:
You were involved with the Salton Sea Authority, too?
Corky Larson:
Yes. It's funny... I'm not sure. Don't write this down. I think I started it?
Colin Barrows:
That's what it says in the bio, yeah. Well, it says you're a founding founding board member.
Corky Larson:
Founding board member, Okay.
Colin Barrows:
Whether or not it was your idea, I won't say.
Corky Larson:
I think it was that I am someone else to say, "We ought to get all these agencies together," because they were getting together, but it was more the staff, you know what I mean? We just didn't know one another. How can you get anything done if you don't trust people, you know, your fellow person there? So, that was good.
Colin Barrows:
Yeah. That's um, that's an issue we run into today. Actually. I've been trying to get, not anything official, but just get people who work with the Monument together. There's three or four different agencies, and a lot of us have never met each other. So we can all at least meet each other once and put a face to the name and a name to the face and that sort of thing.
Corky Larson:
And it's important that you do it enough that you have rapport, but don't do it so much that you're cozy. I mean, I don't think disagreements hurt rapport, depending on how they're done. It's critical that you do it.
Colin Barrows:
That's interesting. You want to have rapport but not be cozy. So what's the sort of danger there?
Corky Larson:
"I know you're doing something wrong, but I'm not going to tell you because you're a nice guy and you mean well, and just because you're stepping all over certain people..." You know? I think we have to be as forthright with the bad, as the good. But, we were really lucky here. I think every city, and of course the County, have really strong environmentalists, and they're in positions of significance. So Palm Desert has good people. I'm trying to think. Is there a weak link in any of the cities, environmentally? I don't think so.
Colin Barrows:
I think they've all got their... You know, there's some council people who are always more environmental than not. So there's one person maybe who is the problem or one person who's good, but I think everybody is pretty good, yeah.
Corky Larson:
I think they mean well, and they'll meet with you. I think it's critical that whoever takes the leadership of the preserve needs to know all those council people really well. 'Cause you know, you look over here for a couple of minutes and you turn around and there's this big tidal wave coming into get you (laughs).
Colin Barrows:
That'll be interesting. Al's got his replacement coming in, who's a professor, I believe, from CSU Fullerton, so he's not local. It will be interesting to see how he adapts to that position. Some of the other preserve people... I don't know that anybody's close to retiring, but it'll be interesting to see how the guard changes.
Corky Larson:
You know, I think one of the things that, unfortunately we've overlooked a lot, is the Salton Sea. That's the reason I ran for the CVWD board was the Salton Sea. I just didn't think we were doing anything. People don't have to be excited. They don't have to be carrying flags, saying, "Yay Salton Sea", they just have to care about it. So hopefully we get somebody.
Colin Barrows:
Well, there it's not the Western Riverside ignoring Eastern Riverside, it's Sacramento ignoring Southern California. Nobody's paying for it, still, but it's going to have to happen at some point. Right?
Cheryl McKinley:
What was your experience on the Coachella Valley, CVWD board?
Corky Larson:
Great board.
Cheryl McKinley:
What were the issues?
Corky Larson:
Well, water. Quantity and quality are the big issues. And you always have Los Angeles wanting to get more of the Colorado River water, and it's like "Okay, boys. Bite the bullet and desalinate the ocean". (laughs) "You're sitting by all this water".
Colin Barrows:
What was your last year on the water district board? Do you know off the top of your head?
Corky Larson:
'94? That sounds right.
Colin Barrows:
So this was before some of the more recent stuff they're dealing with, the chromium 6 and all that, or some of the more controversial stuff, like the lawsuit with the tribe?
Corky Larson:
See, I think if I'd stayed there, there wouldn't have been a lawsuit with the tribe. There's nothing like patting yourself on the back.
Colin Barrows:
(Laughs) Sure, go ahead.
Corky Larson:
Well, you know, somebody who is recognized as an authority has to meet with them. And you talk to people long enough and you can sense common ground and then you moved to that. And I just don't think... nobody sees that as their job. Well, it is your job. You're on the board. If somebody else isn't doing it, do it. And I'm not sure you want to have staff develop those relationships, so the next thing you know staff is more powerful than you. So you have to work at those relationships.
Colin Barrows:
Well, my timer says an hour and five minutes. Cheryl, do you have anything else?
Cheryl McKinley:
No, I'm writing down the last three things you said, which I think are kind of political advice. I'm not so good at politics, I think I'm good at relationships, but not on the level of getting things done that you're talking about. It takes a certain savvy that I didn't grow up with at all. So, I'm just kind of a student here.
Corky Larson:
I think you'd do just fine. It's a matter of developing the rapport, so you know when you can move with person, or when it's too soon. Or maybe you aren't the one to move.
Cheryl McKinley:
It's the will to move, you know, and the clarity about that.
Corky Larson:
Then you need to sit down and talk with somebody who's in a position like yours and let them do it. But you need to get it done, if you see clearly what needs to be done.
Cheryl McKinley:
Well the living history project wasn't getting done by anybody. Colin said, "Oh, I'm kind of interested in that". And that was the critical mass I was waiting for. And here we are.
Corky Larson:
Well, if I can help you any other way.
Colin Barrows:
An interview with you and Buford together, I think would be good if you're interested.
Corky Larson:
Sure. What a blessing he's been for the Valley.
Colin Barrows:
I'll say, yeah.
Corky Larson:
I don't think Buford gets the credit he deserves.
Colin Barrows:
Somewhat intentionally on his part, probably.
Cheryl McKinley:
What have you been doing since you've been retired?
Corky Larson:
Good question (laughs) I don't know. I live in Sun City, Palm Desert. Great place to be. It really is neat, you've got all the facilities that you need. I like to walk in the morning.
Colin Barrows:
Did you walk this morning or was it too hot?
Corky Larson:
(nods)
Colin Barrows:
Good for you. I didn't walk this morning. It was too hot.
Corky Larson:
Never too hot for me. You've got to walk.
Cheryl McKinley:
Thank you so much.
Colin Barrows:
Yeah, thank you. That was great.
Corky Larson:
My pleasure.
The recording of the interview is a little hard to hear, with lots of water cups clinking, filler words, and a few moments where we had to clarify questions. With that in mind, I recommend reading the transcript first, which has been edited for clarity.
Additionally, there was some confusion between Bill Havert and Bill Mayhew during the interview. Both "Bills" were influential figures in the conservation of the Coachella Valley, but Bill Mayhew was the only one present during the events discussed in our conversation. Every time Bill Havert is mentioned here, we are actually referring to Bill Mayhew. The transcript has been edited to reflect this.